"How Tax Cuts Work" by David R Kamerschen -REFUTED – The Real Way Tax Work Removing the Internet Garbage
There is a bogus viral email that you may notice floating through your email from time to time called “How Tax Cuts Work” by David R. Kamerschen, Professor. First, no one knows who really wrote this article or joke (below) Professor Kamerschen refutes the fact that he is the author. It was in fact originally circulated in 2001 or 2002 under the name of T. Davies.
The article is written in a way to make a political point about taxes. It hopes to present a truism with a simple analogy. In the simplicity of the analogy the truth is supposed to be revealed that it takes someone with money to pay for things and make expensive things affordable for the poor. (like Cake)
Below is the original story and below that is the way that tax systems would really work with this type of an analogy in a full political and economic system. The full system analogy is neither simple nor altruistic.
Now, this is a long bit of an article to read, but I promise you that it is interesting.
The ViralGrapeVine Guarantee
If you do not find it interesting, send me $5 for postage and handling along with a self addressed and stamped envelope and I will send you a dollar! You will then have $1 and an interesting story to tell about how you earned that dollar.
“How Tax Cuts Work” – the original viral email
Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.
Suppose that every night, ten men go to their favorite bar for beer. The tab for all ten
comes to $100 for ten pitchers. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like
this:
- The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
- The fifth would pay $1.
- The sixth would pay $3.
- The seventh $7.
- The eighth $12.
- The ninth $18.
- The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every night and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your nightly tab by $20.”
So, now drinks for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their tab the way we pay our taxes. So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six, the paying customers?
How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share’?
The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being ‘PAID‘ to drink beer!
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
- The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
- The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
- The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
- The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
- The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
- The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once drunk and outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man “but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than me!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up at the bar, so the nine sat down and drank without him. But when it came time to pay the tab, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for
even half of the tab!And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up to pick up the tab anymore.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Distinguished Professor of Economics
536 Brooks Hall
University of Georgia
OK, so in that example you are treated like ‘boys and girls’ and offered up a simple analogy that any beer drinker could relate to and it is asserted by someone that would appear to know what they are talking about.
Its all bogus, including the lesson,
How Taxes Really Work
To start with . . . .
In the US and throughout most of the rest of the world, the tenth man would have paid off a politician for $10 to get a beer subsidy of $30 per night(to create jobs for the bartender). Of this $30, $10 of course would have covered the lobbying expense, $10 would go in his own pocket, $1 would go to the bartender to keep his mouth shut, and $9 would go to the bar.
The Bar would give him a kickback of $10 each night for bringing in his 9 buddies to make them into alcoholics, repeat customers for life.
The Bar would then raise their prices to $130 citing inflation and higher taxes.
The tenth richest man would then secure his finances in a Dutch Holding Company managed by a trust in Ireland which invests in Chase and Bank of America. He would then explain to his buddies that he is as poor as the rest of them and can’t afford to pay himself as he cries into his beer that night citing his latest financial report which shows him to be broke on paper so that he doesn’t have to pay taxes in the United States ever again.
Citing his former generosity, the other nine men would agree that the tenth man can now pay nothing like the 4 poorest.
The others would then be faced with an adjusted amount of
- The fifth would pay $3.
- The sixth would pay $10.
- The seventh would pay $22.
- The eighth would pay $38.
- The ninth would pay $57.
Now the group would recognize that this is not fair and so would lobby the Government for an Earned Drinking Credit for the Poorest men. The government would oblige and give the four poorest men $2 each, but they would tax the 5th – 9th men $2 each as well.
- 4 men receive a total of $8 and 5 men pay $10.
The adjusted amounts would then look like this for all 10
- First Receives $2 pays $2 | Net 0
- Second Receives $2 pays $2 | Net 0
- Third Receives $2 pays $2 | Net 0
- Fourth Receives $2 pays $2 | Net 0
- Fifth Pay $1 to bar pays $2 to tax | net paid $3
- Sixth Pay $8 to bar; pays $2 to tax | net paid $10
- Seventh Pay $20 to bar; pays $2 to tax | net paid $22
- Eighth Pay $36 to bar pays $2 to tax | net paid $38
- Ninth Pay $55 to bar; pays $2 to tax | net paid $57
- Tenth Man: Tax Credit Received: $30 ;
Pays $10 to politician;
$1 to bartender;
Receives $10 from Bar
Net RECEIVED $29 per night and free beerOf course this can not go on forever as the sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth men can’t afford to pay those rates forever. So they start paying with their credit cards held by Bank of America and Chase.
The tenth man would start demanding a higher Return on Investment from his investment managers, who would be hearing similar requests from all of their other investors. They would then expand their holdings into mortgaged back securities where a good deal more profit could be made.
Meanwhile the Fifth through ninth men are racking up debt on their credit cards from drinking every night, their health care costs are increasing as their liver fails, and they are also spending more on gasoline as they drink and drive as they can no longer afford to cab it.
Ultimately, they end up refinancing their credit cards into their house where they have equity. The mortgage broker promises them a 4.9% interest rate on the refinance which sounds good as their credit card interest rate is up to 21%. The broker promises them that they will not have to verify their income, provide W2′s nor copies of their tax paper work.
Their mortgage broker doesn’t tell them, but lies about the value of their house in order to refinance their credit and help them avoid paying private mortgage insurance. At their current income levels, and without verifying their income, their mortgage would be classified as Sub Prime and the interest rate would be 10.9%
The mortgage officer lies about their income levels as well to boost the internal credit scoring mechanism and get them financed, not at 4.9% but 5.9%, which is better than 10.9% and happens to pay the mortgage broker a higher commission than a loan at 4.9% that is not sub prime.
The mortgage broker also promises them a payment of $900 per month, but fails to mention the balloon payment of $50,000 in the 5th year and doesn’t mention the adjustable rates in year 3.
The men separately show up with a hangover and sun glasses on the date of their close for their new mortgages. They trust their broker and do not read the paperwork in detail flipping and signing almost as fast as they could raise a beer bottle to their lips.
The loan closes, the mortgage broker gets a fat commission, the bank securitizes the mortgages by selling them to an Irish Hedge Fund and pockets collectively a billion dollars in profits that year.
The hedge fund holds the investment for a year, shows a 35% gain on paper and starts selling shares to retirement funds and 401ks in the US that the Sixth through 9th men just happen to have the rest of their life savings sitting in.
The tenth man sees the writing on the wall, literally magic marker on a stall in the restroom of the bar.
“The end is Nigh”
He pulls his money out of the Irish Hedge fund invested in real estate and invests in Gold at $600 a troy ounce.
Meanwhile, he lobbies congress to tighten bankruptcy laws for credit cards which he still has a sizable investment in. Congress tightens bankruptcy laws and makes it impossible to absolve credit card debt, forcing people into chapter 13 where they must pay off the debt within 3 years or go to debtors prison where they can work it off in 7 years.
Gas prices are still going up so the President ignores a minor terrorist threat, allows the terrorists to blow up a major building and then goes to war with the terrorists home country where there is no oil, and simultaneously with a country that sits on 10% of the worlds oil reserves that has a decimated military infrastructure.
Oil prices shoot through the roof with Gold following close behind. The President whose family comes from oil barons make a fortune and become famous at their skull and bones country club outside of Yale.
Meanwhile our famous 10 guys, start paying even more money at the pump. The first 4 guys end up taking second jobs working at Wal-Mart and have to give up drinking at the bar so that they can try and beat their teenage kids out of a promotion.
The fifth and sixth guys get foreclosed upon. They were forced to stop paying their mortgage payments so that they could pay their mandatory credit card payments as required by the new bankruptcy law.
The seventh, eighth and ninth men all previously traded up their homes for McMansions that they can not afford with interest only payments of $2300 a month. When foreclosures start happening their plans on flipping their McMansions and cashing in on the equity slips through their fingers.
To make matters worse seven and eight get laid off from the companies they work for when their jobs get outsourced to China. The ninth man keeps his job at a law firm, but fails to notice that his 401k fund is slipping and has lost 10% in the last year. Things are looking up as his law firm seems on the edge of landing a big contract with Merrill Lynch.
Then the real estate crash and sub prime mortgage scandal erupt. Banks start dropping like flies to be saved not by the cash strapped government that can barely afford the war for oil any longer, but by China. Oil and Gold soar, Gold hits $900 a troy ounce and Oil hits $130 a barrel (about the same amount for 10 rounds of beer prior to the crash). Beer prices hold steady for the first few months, but then start to edge up as gas prices for delivery creep into the bar owners expenses.
Then the first four men one night remember their favorite bar. They sneak around back around 4:30 am and steal 50 empty kegs that just happen to be made of pure aluminum. Those kegs are now worth about half the value of a keg that is full in scrap metal prices or about $80.
They are not stupid and don’t want to get caught turning the kegs in at the dump where the police are already looking for keg thieves. So they head out to the closed down manufacturing plant where they used to work. They start a big fire, and melt down the aluminum into big messy aluminum splashes on the cement.
They turn in the aluminum for cash and get caught up on their back alimony and child support before heading back to work at Wal-mart where they now work for their teen age kids that beat them out for that promotion earlier in the month because their job skills weren’t as good as recent high school graduates. They then begin dreaming of new ways to find aluminum alimony allowances.
Meanwhile, the banks and mortgage companies lobby congress spending about $10,000 a head in an election year to bail out the economy. Congress provides the major banks with government backed loans to refinance the bad sub prime loans so that the government can personally guarantee those bad loans. They also put $100 billion of actual cash into the hands of Americans hoping to stimulate the economy.
Americans however, are all in debt up to their eye balls and use the extra $1200 they receive to make 2-3 credit card payments. They take the $300 for each kid and buy groceries for the month and then they start worrying about next month.
The banks get away free as they have Chinese financing now and no bad loans as they have refinanced them over to the US Government. The US government had to print more money to pay for all of these actions and so Gold goes up to $1500 a troy ounce.
The tenth man is now worth Billions and moves to Costa Rica to retire taking the new trophy wife that used to be the bartenders girl friend with him.
The first four men end up going to county prison for 3 months for stealing aluminum dog crap receptacles after running out of kegs to steal.
The fifth and sixth men end up living in an apartment and then homeless after they lose their jobs at Wal-Mart.
The seventh and eighth men whom we previously left hanging in our story after they lost their jobs and ability to pay for their homes, end up losing their homes, and their kids. They and their spouses are each convicted of mortgage fraud by the FBI in a major sting operation after it is revealed that they lied on their mortgage applications. Their mortgage brokers who actually did the paper work cop a plea agreement in exchange for immunity with the Feds and rat out each of their unsuspecting customers.
The ninth man ends up losing his entire retirement fund which took a big hit as the dollar rapidly plummeted into free fall. He ends up refinancing his own house under a government backed loan for $650,000. Unfortunately, a tornado comes through that winter in a freak coincidence and levels the home. FEMA promises to provide assistance but never shows up and the ninth man freezes to death attempting to salvage the shreds of his belongings. His home insurance policy refuses to pay as they claim that his house was over valued and then they prove it with comparables studies from his own mortgage brokers database.
The tenth man ends up dumping his new bride a year later, moving back to the states a year after that when the US appears to have hit rock bottom and he leads up a Chinese real estate investment initiative in the states. He makes another $10 billion in ten years, but is then executed in Beijing for espionage.
Meanwhile, the bar tender goes on to win American Idol and sleep with Paula Abdul. They are now blissfully happy, doped up on anti-psychotics, and the biggest two idiots the world has ever seen.
EDIT – Note this article is not written to refute the article titled ‘How Tax Cuts Work’ by David R Kamerschen. That is because David R Kamerschen refutes having ever written the original! This is just an article to expand on the concept of the original article written by an unknown viral writer.
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@AWMC No, I have never cheated on my taxes. I also served in the army on active duty for 4 years. So by your reasoning, I must have EVERY right to complain, which is what I am doing (I guess, although I was trying to be funny too).
I do not think that only the rich cheat on their taxes, but they do cheat in much larger amounts (drug dealers aside).
Nice quote by Ronald Reagan, he went to school where I grew up. Richard Pryor is also from there so here’s a nice Richard Pryor quote, “I won’t talk about what it was like in prison, except to say I’m glad I’m out and that I plan never to go back and to pay my taxes every day. ”
For what its worth, I think Reagan was mostly a good President, but the quote doesn’t really apply today.
The tax code has grown to unrecognizable lengths since Reagan left office in 88. Its more than twice as long as it used to be (maybe 3 times) when he was President.
To counter your entire second paragraph, I think this original article points out that the Tax System is broken in very complicated ways. I’d suggest that simplifying the tax code would make it easier for ‘everyone’ to comply without having to go to tax prepares and it would also make it more difficult for people at all levels to fudge the numbers.
In general, I too think the IRS needs to deploy its resources well and go after the biggest $ offenders first. Maybe we can agree that anyone that cheats on $1 million or more of taxes owed per year should be targeted?
Too low? How about $10 million? (That would cover my former employer, whom by the way I turned into the IRS, even when they threatened to make me disappear and kill my kids.)
To recap, I don’t cheat. I don’t suffer cheaters. I think things are too complex and that results in increased abuse of the system, and both Richard Pryor and Ronald Reagan new how to be funny, which is a midwest trait.
The story fails to take into account this income side and only looks at the cost side. This story “is” Mc Cain’s stump speak in a nut shell, and why I don’t agree with his views on the economy and taxes. I hope UGA professor didn’t write the original story or we are all in even more trouble!!!!
Here’s the real version:
>>> The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
Lets assume that 3 of the five a totally taking advantage of the system are these welfare cheats. Which really do exist, just not sure if its 30%-50% of the population.
#4 makes $18k a year working in a day care center
#5 makes $32k a year working at Mc Donalds
(None of these 5 get any health benefits from anyone including the Gov.; under McCain)
>>> The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). Makes $45k a year as a A/P clerk with poor to average benefits, works for Boeing
>>> The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).Makes $48K as a CSR, but get good benefits because he works for Abbott labs
>>> The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). Makes $65k per year as a Engineer, with good benefits works for IBM
>>> The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). Make $150k a year as a VP, with poor to average benefits.
>>> The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).Make $15 million a year as a CEO of AIG, with Gold plated benefits, stock option out the ass and a golden parachute protecting him. Oh by the way this guy just got a tax cut saving him $500k a year on Capital gains and income tax rates.
Following is my favorite part of the story….
>>> And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
>>> our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
>>> most benefit from a tax reduction.
>>> Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
>>> not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
>>> where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
As if the guy number 10 is not going to show up and pay his $49 and give up his $15 million annual income? What he’ll move to India or China and find a job with the same pay? Not very likely, or it would have been happening already. Only thing going overseas are the jobs of guys 6-9. Guy #10 stays right where he is at, drives the bar owner out of business, buys the bar, now drinks for free and jacks the price up 50% to everyone else, and refuses service to Guys 1-5.
People flock to this country for find their fortunes and gain their freedoms for a reason. Because even with our taxes it is the ONLY place in the world where this can be achieved, on a somewhat level playing field; in regards to the system being open to everyone, not just a privileged few. Raising #10′s top tier tax rate by 3%, back the where it was 15 years ago is not going to dissuade anyone from trying to make millions. It won’t stop me.
For the opportunity and privilege to live in the greatest country ever created, and have a real shot at making millions regardless of sex, race, religion, etc, I am wiling to let a few free-loaders and cheats, ride the economic coat-tails; and if you are smart so should you.
First things first brettbum thank you for your service.
I hope your not lumping all rich into the same category because of the piece of s@#t you use to work for? I agree 100% that tax code is way too complicated (what do you expect it’s the federal government, they can make crossing the street complicated) but that’s what we have to work with at the moment. I can’t make the leap that because of a few all are bad. I believe that most of the rich pay what they are required to, even know they take advantage of the loop holes (which they have every right to do) that are in the current tax laws.
Even if we went to a flat tax where everyone pays say 15% then you cut 2% from everyone, the 10th guy is still going to benefit the most because he’s putting out the most. The only way your going to change that is if you increase the 10th guy and cut the other nine. Is that fair? I don’t think so. I think that’s punishing someone for being successful.
Hey AWMC,
Thanks, and I’m not trying to lump all the rich together. That said the IRS definitely does not have the resources to keep people in compliance or even mostly in compliance. Its as bad if not worse than the problems we have seen in banking recently.
I’m not so much advocating a flat tax versus a progressive tax, but I do think we need a much simplified tax code with far fewer loop holes and gray areas.
Ha! It could have been more humorous, but I laughed anyway. Good stuff.
[...] to myself – but I had thought I’d seen this before…so in the intersts of parity…and parody "How Tax Cuts Work" by David R Kamerschen -REFUTED – The Real Way Tax Work Removing the In… [...]
[...] seen this before…so in the interests of a bit of truth, some parity…and a lot of parody… "How Tax Cuts Work" by David R Kamerschen -REFUTED – The Real Way Tax Work Removing the In… [...]
Interesting and humorous, I liked it. I think, however, that a few observations are in order.
1.) As mentioned in previous comments, the “poor” are not in a fixed state. Those that complain do have an obligation to better themselves and the system. While unfairness is a fact of life (those who haven’t figured it out should do so quickly), it can be mitigated by the huge opportunities available to anyone with a solid work ethic and a drive to succeed.
2.) The tax breaks and loopholes that the “rich” take advantage of are often (not always) available to the “poor” and “middle class” as well. The reason why they’re not being taken advantage of is because these individuals lack either the will, the education, or perceived resources to do so. I say perceived because with enough initiative anything can be achieved.
3.) The blame does not lie on any one individual and perhaps equally on all of us. The more we complacently sit back and watch TV on a week night and fail to become involved and concerned, telling our representatives and local officials what matters to us, the more the system and those who know it can take advantage of us, not because we are inferior, but because we are apathetic where it counts (actions).
4.) Finally, the system (be it taxes, representation, business, or anything) will never be perfect or fair. The advantage of humorous articles like this is to draw our attention to the unfairness so that we may be involved and make a rational judgment about what irregularities can be fixed and which ones we just need to accept or meet halfway (such as increasing our own income and educating ourselves). Sure jobs are going overseas and many rich individuals hire experts to show them perfectly legal ways to preserve income. What “Average Joe”, be he plumber or doctor or manager or clerk, needs to do is take some responsibility and act, not just post outraged comments on a forum or blog. That’s fine too, if it’s backed up by something tangible. I doubt anyone will read this and take inspiration, but that’s my two cents (or fifty).
DON’T JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE SYSTEM, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!
God Bless.
Duncan, well said. I’m inspired. Less tv and complaining and more rolling up the sleeves is definitely the way to go – especially in what is still the best country on the planet. Let’s keep it that way by hard work, individual responsibility, and helping others.
Nisi
The original allegory tells a simple truth that clearly the “corrected” version author refuses to accept because it does not fit his predetermined “fairer” conclusion. Not very scholarly to start with a conclusion that is born in dogma and try to use this as an argument against a truth understandable by open minded people above 6th grade education. The fact is, it isn’t a fair world we live in. No mater how unfair it may seem, those who work harder and smarter and take risks with a bit of luck thrown in will rise to the top. Participation within the confines of USA boundaries is voluntary,
Only at the university level, can one whine oneself to the top. Only in a totalitarian society can one force oneself to the top.
Earlier in the replies, I read something about we are living in a socialist country. Soon, we will know what that really is, and it’s not spelled “BUSH”. Years ago, after coming home from a Bible study at our church with lots of well-meaning Democrats, I told my husband, “They should be happy now. Bush is acting just like a big-spending Democrat.” But they still ranted and raved about how Bush was the reason for the problems. Hmmm!!!
We deserve what we got for our two presidential candidates this week. Until we start living the way we know is right, we will not move out of the mess we are in. If it was up to me, the first item on my agenda would be to stop killing 4,000 babies a day. Maybe, we would have more sense in the United State 18 years from now when they all vote. Even though at this point in my life, I don’t make the $250,000 per year that I did a decade ago, I know what it’s like to be rich and to be poor. The rich pay so many taxes. One of our children pays more taxes now than we paid for at least 15 years of our working lives. (That’s when we were hauling it in). He doesn’t complain, either, probably because he’s had too many years of the liberal under-grad and post-grad education. He thinks it’s only fair to pay ‘his share’ of the taxes. Oh, how I wish he had that money to do what he does so well, which is try to look at all angles of things. He has helped so many people anonymously through having a heart. But, oh, no, let’s give it to the govt. who can then throw it at things that fail. I do know this son doesn’t have time to reply on websites. He’s too busy working to pay his federal and estate taxes. Of all of our children and their spouses, he’s the most liberal. We had a great talk the day after the election. He told me that he was amazed how much I know about all this, even though he and I are on opposite sides.
All I can say is I am disappointed in America right now. I didn’t want either of the candidates to win. I’m Republican in the true sense of the word. At least one of the running mates believed in the lives of babies. And it wasn’t the Catholic, which I happen to be. I called a Church in another county on Wednesday, to ask them to send me the list I should have been reading and considering before I voted. Maybe, I can try to live every aspect of my life better and try to adhere to what is on that list so we don’t end up with the same for our choices next time around.
I am afraid of how the world is changing. People don’t seem to be
thinking of what they are voting for. I’m so glad that I was brought
up to understand that each individual can be successful and that I
can’t take away from them what I want. I have go go out and earn it.
I am appalled at the thinking that life should be fair and equal to
everybody. Maybe if they get off their butts and do something!!!
Thanks for your reply and thoughts Mother Knows Best. Even though your son doesn’t have time to reply on websites, I’m happy that you do.
More importantly, I’m glad your son avoided the layoffs that hit 250,000 people last month too, someone has to pay taxes afterall (or do they? there’s a fun topic!)
Anyway, even though I personally don’t think abortion is something a modern society needs to engage in, I think we still operate in many ways from a 19th century perspective. Until people are better educated in science, I don’t think they will be able to make informed decisions well enough for this country to understand how to move past the life vs. choice fight. Its ironic in that many (but not all) pro life supporters also try and block access to science education which might actually enable people to make a better legislative choice!
Anyway, I do not really see the relevance of abortion to a satirical view on taxes, but I always love a good tangent and I thank you for that very much.
brettbum,
why do I not find it surprising that you don’t see a connection. Oh, and my son wouldn’t be naive enough to let someone else be in charge of whether he should be laid off. We’re glad to have raised out kids to avoid that.
hey, I was a 4.0 college student and do have some science courses in my background. are you one of those that think sun hit some rocks and you appeared? Abortion at whim has a lot more to do with your thinking on taxes than you realize.
Kudos again to your son. I’m glad he has joined the club. I personally enjoy being in charge of my own destiny as well.
To be perfectly up front and transparent, I think religion is a sham. I can’t tell you how I or the earth appeared as I was not there at the time and don’t lay claim to knowing or pushing my ignorance on people.
As to the connection, I’d be glad to hear more. I don’t see the connection between abortion and taxes, but as I attempted to mention before, I’m no fan of abortion by any means. I think it is archaic and barbaric and I think technology actually proves that. That said, mankind has a long history of taking years and decades to come to grips with various technologies and how to apply them without doing more harm than good.
This particular practice is one such example. The application of taxes (possibly to your point) is another ‘technology’ as well that attempts to balance the systems of society. As income taxes have been around for about 90 years now, I don’t have the luxury of experience living in a system that didn’t have income taxes. I can’t say that going without income taxes would be a bad or a good thing, but I am willing to try.
I do think there are times when you have to reset or flush out a system that has been corrupted too much and that in my opinion is what we have with the current tax code, hence the satirical example in the original article. Clouding that argument with talk of abortion, seems to be a red herring, but if you tell me that eliminating abortion will fix the tax code, I’m all ears.
Bar Stool Economics EXACTLY! Consider this perspective!
The 10th guy says, “to start with I’m paying 59% of the bill and getting only 10% of the benefit” which pisses off the other 9 guys. The next night the 10th guy shows up alone and figures that instead of just drinking his $49 beer he’d just as much fork over another $31 and drink all the rest of the beers for himself. By the time he’s finished with the 6th beer he falls off the stool cracking his head on the floor nearly killing himself! The four poorest blokes soon showed up to claim the 4 free beers they couldn’t bear to pass up and instead have to revive him!
Oh you know what? Sounds a little like our current crisis eh?
Tigman2 that’s excellent. In my old line of work you would have gotten 10 out of 10 stars for being incisive.
Meanwhile,the world banks and the Fed will get drunk for free,whilst watching 10 drunk idiots fight amongst themselves, as to who should be paying the interest of the money they(the Fed) created out of thin air. The world deserves exactly what they are getting. Who said stupidity wasn’t painful?
haha. more democrat skewing.
Hey bs, welcome to the real world where things are not cut and dried and btw the tax system is completely broken. You can engage in nice economic theory models all day long, but those are models. In the real world the system has been bastardized 8 ways to sunday and buggered thrice on monday.
Well, perhaps if we were to apply the same analogy of one’s “Ability to pay” for beer or taxes to…oh…let’s say…sex it would be more applicable.
We need a Bill mandating a right to sex for all the 400lb Poindexters and 300lb Oprah look-a-likes of the world . After all they lack of “Ability to get laid”. It is not their fault they are sexually displeasing to the rest of society. They are victims of bad genes, poor hygiene, and the availability of 24 hour fast food.
Hence fourth, we should legally mandate that the Beautiful people of the world should be forced to give 59% of their potential sexual availability to have vagrants, homeless, and general all around societal outcasts. This will eliminate the sex trade, drive strip clubs out of business, porn will be a thing of the past and STD rates decline sharply. IT WILL SERVE THE GREAT GOOD OF SOCIETY AND SAVE POOR WOMEN FROM THE SEX TRADE.
After all, why should only SOME American’s be considered sexually attractive? If we forced the “Beautiful People” to spend 214.2 nights a year (59% of 360 nights) sexually satisfying people who would never have been able to have sex with them prior to our new “Booty Tax”.
As soon as this bill is passed, I am quitting my job and moving to the nearest College Campus.
Doctor Dread you are too damn funny for your own good.
That’s a great analogy!
[...] A quick goolge of Dr Kamerschen gave this: "How Tax Cuts Work" by David R Kamerschen -REFUTED – The Real Way Tax Work Removing the In… [...]
[...] your own punchline [...]
I read most of the comments and was suprised the “Fair Tax” did not come up. Our progressive tax system is unfair and socialistic as and Dr. Kamerschen’s story is right on target.
You know if one of the poor guys goes and buys a can of corn at the grocery store for $1, he pays in the neighborhood of $.80 for the corn and $.20 cents in embedded federal taxes incurred from the farm to the grocery store. My knee jerk reaction is why don’t we get this all out in the open with the “Fair Tax” Everybody sees their taxes on every receipt.
Then I realize “Big Government” doesn’t want it that way. This is the same government that doesn’t collect its taxes from the majority of its payers. It forces employers to collect it for them in small amounts deducted from paychecks. They want the process hidden and deceptive.
Further more “Big Government” takes more than it needs and returns the excess as the beloved April “Refund”. They are ready to take credit for that with the big green check with US Treasury stamped boldly accross the top. They pay not one penney of intrest on this money they are forcing people to loan them.
The sad thing is most of the tax payers see the 1040EZ as the ticket to the refund not the proof of the scam the government has put on them the previous year. If everyone had to write the federal government a check every quarter, like I do, there would be rioting in the street. “Big Government” has to have the deception.
One of the most common reactions to the “Fair Tax” is that it is good idea but politically undigestable. I say lets elect the politicians that can digest it and give it a try. It certainly can’t be any worse than the system we have.
@Alan I don’t think anyone would ever want to live in a system where they all paid the same fair and flat price for things. That’s just crazy talk!
Value-Added Tax (as other countries have found) are a better form of taxation because it also picks up the underground economy (those living cash only to avoid income tax). Even a drug dealer who I supposed doesn’t declare his illegal money will pay in a VAT system as he buys other things with the money. The rich will always pay more in this system as well because they also consume more.
Thanks rcloud, that is somewhat true. It does pick up the underground economy but it also is not very progressive when it comes to economics and things like nasty global recessions and things. It also encourages people to go spend their money outside of the country where they are being taxed, preferably in a country where they do not have VAT. There are laws to try and real that in, but if you are a drug dealer and you have no qualms about say, profiting from the sale of heroin, you probably don’t have a problem with purchasing a lot of expensive stuff in a different country, and in general paying tax on just the food you eat (as a single drug dealer) isn’t really going to help that much if you are making millions of dollars in income from the sale of illicit drugs.
Note as this is a blog and everyone has odd opinions on blogs, if you happen to like drugs or even heroin and feel that it should be legalized, well each unto their own. That said for purposes of making my point please substitute heroin and drug dealing with land mines and arms dealing to to warlords or selling dirty bomb material to terrorists or anything in general that you do not like.
[...] rates forever. So they start paying with their credit cards held by Bank of America and Chase. Removing the Internet Garbage __________________ Ain’t nobody slowing down no way, everybody’s stepping on their accelerator, [...]
I’ve been interested in taxations for lengthier then I care to acknowledge, both on the private side (all my employed lifetime!!) and from a legal stand since satisfying the bar and pursuing tax law. I’ve provided a lot of advice and redressed a lot of wrongs, and I must say that what you’ve posted makes utter sense. Please persist in the good work – the more people know the better they’ll be armed to comprehend with the tax man, and that’s what it’s all about.
What really winds up happening is that no matter what the taxes are, the politicians use, and will forever continue to use, the ignorance of the vast majority of Americans about the tax system to continue taking more and more of our money through direct and indirect taxes. The only way to stop the political demagoguery is the fair tax.
fairtax.org
It’s worth investigating
nice post, I like your analogies. It is time to get our country back on the right track. I hope it is not too late. I agree that more needs to be done in many areas, but the answer cannot be taxing the productive until they are unproductive.
I kind a love this article, i believe its informative to our members. so much things to learn and i hope you continue write great stuff on this website. tnx
There is a more simple way to destroy the Kamerschen theory : you just have to show the REAL size of the pints for everyone.
http://img338.yfrog.com/img338/3514/contreargumentkamerchen.jpg
Translation :
Upper left : the 5 free pints
Middle left : the n° 6,7 and 8 pints
Bottom left : the 9th guy pint
Right : the 10th guy pint
And that one to say : ” it is sooooooo unfair i’m paying the half of the bill ! ”
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Hi, I like the Shrek movies, super movie!
[...] How Taxes Work Also check the link below theres a good response to the letter you posted. "How Tax Cuts Work" by David R Kamerschen -REFUTED – The Real Way Tax Work Removing … Reply With Quote + Reply to [...]
The original article is actually correct. All the refuted comments (most make good points) actually show that the richest man has already started reducing the amount of times he goes drinking so has cut the amount of times he goes drinking. It is true that the rich pay way more in taxes and the poor actually not only pay nothing they sometimes get money in addition to not paying. Since a majority of our taxes go to entitlement and welfare programs the rich get less from the govt for paying more in taxes. So in addition we are asking them to pay much more and get far less. Fairness would be getting back an equivilent to what you pay in. This will never happen as the poor pay nothing and expect everything for free. At least evreyone payng the same % of their income would be fairer then the current top 10% paying for 90% of the government . Suppose you go to buy a car and they access your income records and charge you twice what they charge someone else for the exact same car because you make twice the money they do?
That’s a great point and is very illustrative when you consider may recent trends whereby rich tax payers who have found ways to pay very few if any taxes at all are now in favor of eating the poor.
Bravo circmand! I agree with you. Reading a few comments, I was amazed at the mental gymnastics people will go through to justify their “soak the rich” economics. People: please listen it’s very simple – work hard, quit whining!
Definitely consider that that you stated. Your favorite justification appeared to be on the net the easiest thing to consider of. I say to you, I certainly get irked at the same time as other folks consider issues that they plainly don’t know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and also defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , folks could take a signal. Will probably be again to get more. Thank you
[...] En fouinant un peu, j’ai trouvé un petit malin qui a fait une réponse bien plus élaborée que moi … en anglais dans le texte et en cliquant sur ce lien [...]